Be open to doing things in a BETTER way. That advice is from the founder of Timeline Genius, Eddie Babbage!
Weddings are complicated celebrations. There are many vendors involved in creating a successful event, and communication between them is key. Timeline Genius is aptly named because it makes the whole timeline creation / update / update/ update / update process seamless. The collaboration tool is simple and incredibly helpful in getting all of those important vendors on the same page. Today's interview with the founder of Timeline Genius, Eddie Babbage, tells the tale of why timelines are so critical, and the easiest way to develop an accurate timeline.
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Hello there, and welcome to the book more Jewish weddings podcast. This is episode number 19. As a wedding vendor you already know how important timelines are. So I've got to ask you, how do you make timelines for your wedding? Eddie Babbitt is the creator of timeline genius. And today, we get the great pleasure of talking about the absolute best way to create a wedding timeline and share it with the many other vendors involved in a successful celebration. I once had a wedding many years ago, where the bride and I talked in great detail about her big day. I asked her all kinds of questions, and I thought I had a really good handle on what her day would look like. Then, on the wedding day, the bandleader showed up with a totally different schedule, starting a full hour and a half later than the bride had planned with me. The caterer had yet another schedule. Oh, all of this could have been avoided if we had just collaborated with timeline genius. So stay tuned, as Eddie shares some of his magic. I promise you this timeline genius is an amazing program. Hello there, Eddie. Welcome to the book more Jewish weddings podcast. I'm so happy to have you on the show today. And I am so honored to be here really excited to have this chat. Well, we got to meet a couple of years ago, several years ago in in Arbor. And I am based out of Detroit. And we were lucky enough to have you here in Ann Arbor and I saw you at a wedding ABC conference. And this whole timeline genius thing that you presented then was amazing. And you've made it better and better every year. So tell us a little bit about you and how you started timeline genius and what it really is and how it can help us. Gosh, I love that question. And it's funny, Pat, as you were talking, I found myself like just visually remembering that that I mean, that was that was that was years ago, but I remembered. So that's how we first connected but then we we cross paths again, what a wedding MBA MBA. Right? But our first connection was there, what I, um, it makes me more appreciative of the benefits. Sometimes when you do things, like invest in anything and in business in life, you don't even see all the ways that the benefits will come to fruition. But our relationship is something that has just been really wonderful over the years. So yeah, regarding tamala G. So tamala G, as we were talking a little bit before, you know, we kind of went into record mode here. I'm a serial tech entrepreneur, this is my third company, and timeline genius really grew out of what for me, I think has been the most penetrating insight that I've learned in all of my entrepreneurial career, which is we're here I believe this personally to help other people, right, like have some homina. I love the quote Muhammad Ali is like service to others as the web we pay for our life here on earth. And that's really what started Tell me Jesus because I wasn't in the wedding industry. And I was just looking for a problem to solve a way to help people in this was like 2013, my wife knew what I was up to. And she had done all the planning for our wedding when we got hits back in 2010. And she said, Look, if you're looking for a problem to solve, you should talk to wedding planners, because let me tell you when I planned our wedding, boy, there were so many logistics. Turns out my wife was dead right? As always, don't go tell her I said that because she's always right. And I started talking to wedding planners, and I asked a very simple question, what's the most tedious part of your job? And I heard the same thing over and over eventually, you know, talking to dozens and you know, at this point 1000s of wedding industry professionals all over the world, and just hearing the passion with which they'd say any, you know, the timeline It is like, you know, it's the backbone for the event day, right and it ended up being bigger than just you know, wedding planners, right? You have people planning barn, but mitzvahs, you have people planning keyed, CNRS, whatever kind of event once it reaches a certain scale, and you have, you know, vendors and venues and clients and all that, like, somebody's got to have a detailed game plan in writing. And you can call it the timeline, you can call it the itinerary run of show whatever label you're using, somebody got to think through the details and put that in writing. And I saw how important that was to the event and you know, the party planning wedding planning process. And, and I saw also how inadequate the tools were like, you guys are so resourceful. I say you because I mean, you're gonna do tomlins I could give you a stone tablet and a chisel and you would, you'd make it work. But I realized that that we could do much better With the tech at our disposal in this day and age, well, I've been using timeline genius, I think for four years now. And I absolutely love it. So give us the spiel on what timeline genius really does. Yeah, so the way I think about timeline genius, Pat, so, you know, the first thing I did when I discovered this problem, I really had people, you know, it's talking to people like you, right? Like, you've been doing this, you've done? What is it like a gazillion events at this point? I don't think we could count anymore. Like, and you when I, when I would find like, I would talk to people. And I'm saying, well, so start at the beginning of your timeline creation process, and walk me from start to finish, you know, and what I, what I discovered is part of the issue is how people were starting timelines, you know, it's like, I've got a template, Eddie, but no two events are ever going to be the exact same. So what happens is, you've got a template, maybe they're just starting with, but Oh, the ceremony time is different. Well, that has a ripple effect on everything else in the timeline, or, you know, actually, this one has the ceremony reception in the same place, but this one is ceremony reception, different venues. Well, that changes the whole timeline. So the first thing we did with Tom on G. And so the way I think about the whole timeline creation process is you've got how you start your timelines, how you edit your timelines, how you collaborate on your timelines, and how you execute, you know, start, edit, collaborate and execute. So starting your timeline is half the battle, okay? Because if you start with from a place that requires a lot of editing, it's gonna take you a lot longer to get to the finished product. So our first sort of genius solution, forgive the pun was, and I can't take credit for this. A lot of people think, oh, Edie, this is great. You did all this. Like, honestly, a lot of it comes from talking to people like you, Pat where you get ideas and feedback. But the first idea was what if people could enter the specific information for a given wedding, right? Like, the religious tradition, right? Because the Jewish wedding is very different as we know than, like, say a Catholic nondenominational. Right? So what if you could just put Jewish in as the religious tradition right off the bat, right? And what if you could set the ceremony time? So yeah, so we let you put in these key details for that wedding? How long do you have the photographer booked? Is it 10 hours, 12 hours, etc. And then you hit a button that says, generate timeline. And this really powerful algorithm that we spent years developing takes all the information that you entered, and uses that to construct an initial detailed timeline for you. So now, you've started your timeline from a better place. And when it comes to editing, well, there's so many ways that I saw people losing time, right? Like, you get a call from a client. And she's like, I need to change this by 10 minutes. But that affects everything else too. So now you're painstakingly want to so we said there's got to be a better way. So on Tama genius, you can just quickly select all of the items that need to get shifted, you do a bulk edit time shift and move everything by 10 minutes ahead. Or, you know, I had a lot of people that would say, Eddie, you know, I do a separate version of the timeline for each of my vendors, right, because I want to build my relationships. Well, I want to have a version of the timeline just for my cake Baker, so she doesn't have to wade through the whole detailed timeline to see the five items. So we built a feature that allows you to just click a button and extract you know, a timeline for the florist. And then collaboration, you know, is another big piece, because when you're working on an event, you have creative partners right now, and it's about you putting your best self forward professionally. So you look like a rock star, right? Like you want them because what people don't realize that I think it well, maybe they do, but I just like to call shine the spotlight on it is your timelines. And it's not just planners either, right? It's not just the people, not just event managers and event planners, it's photographers. You know, when there is no planner involved. Sometimes it's the photographer, right? I'm talking to lavishly let you get awarded to you, you interrupt me, please, because I'm just you start talking timelines, then I just start rambling. I think one of the most valuable things for timeline genius for me is getting everybody on the same page. Yeah, I have been to events where I show up. And the band has a totally different timeline than me. I mean, they started an hour and a half later than we thought they were starting. And we all talked to the bride. And we all got what we thought was accurate information. But to me timeline genius guarantees that we can all see the same information and all start from that and what I've done with it, because I'm not a planner, I focus on day of party management. And I know that party management is a big deal. But I can't do it alone. I need all those vendors to be on the same page. And I love that I can develop a timeline with the bride. I can send it to all those vendors. And now they don't have to ask all the same questions I just asked. They don't have to say what's the bride's mom's name. What's the bride's dad's name? They don't have to say, What time's the ceremony? Where's it going to be? All that's in there? And if us vendors collaborate, oh my gosh, the world is so much easier. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for that pad. And it really is. I mean, that's really the vision. And we're still I think in the early, and it's so exciting to think about like, like, I want to honestly just shake up the whole global event industry. Like I see a world where we can all be collaborating and working together so much more efficiently and harmoniously. Right. And I think some of it is, we talked a little bit about this before, again, we hopped into record mode here, the notion of standardization, right? Like, you know, like, there be no value in Facebook. Well, some people say there's no value in Facebook, even with this, like a social network, if there's nobody on it, right. I think one of the things that's interesting about timeline GS is, the more people who are using it, the more benefit there can be. Because if it became more standards, and everybody would have the feeling that you're talking about, because it's not just the starting of your timeline, which is a big deal in terms of your efficiency, and saving your time. It's not just the editing, it is the collaboration piece. Because if you're not going to do like, this is a team job, right? Like, when you pull off an A plus event, it's not just you, you're working with other people, right? And you're only as good as everybody's performance, because it's almost like a show, right? Like, everybody's got a role to play. And in you all have a shared game plan. But the collaboration piece of this is like, okay, now invite people because what I think is personally outdated, is the notion that, all right, well, first of all, what you just said is exactly right. Like, in a lot of cases left to their own devices, the photographer has his or her own plan. Now the band came up with their own plan, you've got your own plan, and like, jeez, that's a mess. But even in a situation where that's not happening, if there's one person, but if they're sending out like emails with Word document attachments, everybody, I mean, or PDFs, then like me, then you're getting calls from this person about load in I can't, and another person, but how. So what we did, we're like, let's take advantage of the fact that we have the internet, right, so let's centralize What? Yeah, the interwebs. Like, we can just, let's have one centralized place. And let's give the flexibility to the person who's taking ownership of the timeline to actually manage access rights on a person by person item by item basis, because, and I love Google Docs, Google Docs is amazing. But what Google Docs say, doesn't give you in terms of collaboration is the ability to say, Okay, I want the groom, you know, to see everything on the timeline, but this one particular item I want to hide, because he's not supposed to know about the surprise. So with time lead genius, you can say, this person can see this, but not edit, or this person can't see this at all, but these people can. So it's really giving flexibility and power in the way people can collaborate. It's on. And lastly, the remind feature is the execution where you can actually program text reminders in before the event and say, Look, I want the, you know, ladies who are getting beauty services to get a text 20 minutes before, you know air makeup and room tonight and you know, be there like the word of the florist. You can just program that you set it, you forget it, it prevents balls from dropping. Yeah, so that's basically the way the product works. It's a wonderful thing. And I can't say enough good things about timeline genius, but my audience here, and I'm so happy to have photographers and videographers and all those other vendors who are looking to grow their business. I got people who would love to break into the Jewish market break into the Indian market break into the crisp American whatever. It's all the same game, how do you break into a new market? So you decided you wanted to invent this whole new product? How do you get started? That's a great question, Pat. And I have perspective on this as an entrepreneur. I also have perspective on this, because I've done some really interesting podcasts with people talking specifically about this coming at it from the vantage point of how do I get into destination weddings? How do I get into say South Asian weddings and you're right, even though each of those is a different niche. There are certain fundamentals that I think apply in the process of getting into a new market. With I guess I'll just start with timeline genius. For me, it really started with following that passion, right. Like, I think one of the things that I think the most central lesson that I've learned from interviewing all of these people in the wedding industry from David Tutera to Sean load, Alan Berg, I mean just all the things that It just comes up over and over again. And I feel like it can't be overstated or stated too often is being your own unique self, right? Like we're all put here on this earth, with our own talents and individuality. And sometimes we can kind of like, repress that or subjugate it like, what if I do this and that's that. So that ties to me in terms of getting into a market of like, we'll be sure that this is something that you want to do, right not something that you're just bolting on, like I kind of just how much he is because like, I that passion was ignited to solve this problem. And that carries me through the times when, like the challenges come up. So I think if somebody is going to break into any market, the first thing that's got to be there, it's like a passion to do so not just, I need a few extra dollars. So I think I'll try this. And you know, it's funny, what's not a prerequisite, and I can't think of any better illustration than you is necessarily having to even be Jewish, which I feel like most people would think, Well, for starters, I'm not going to break into the Jewish mark. But I just find that so profoundly interesting about your, your situation. Why, just because I was raised on a pig farm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's just so like, Who would have thought but another thing that comes to mind, and I'm just doing sort of pattern recognition, like thinking, going through my mental Rolodex here and thinking about people like you, that got into an industry and made it right, and you please feel free? I feel like you're more of an authority on this, because you've done the exact thing that you're talking about. But if you so please feel free to shoot me down or correct your businesses? Well, yeah. How do you get started? How do you get started with the business? Yeah, well, what just just to finish this thought, specifically, if if I were a wedding industry pro trying to get into one of these niches, I'll tell you, one thing that I would think of that's a real hack is find somebody who's done it, and learn from them. And I sat and I know that you we talked last time about you're investing in courses to learn to get that mentorship. I think, if you're trying to get into a new market, the assumption is, you're not already the Jewish party Maven, right? Like you're not already the expert. And I think this is not to say that you can't figure things out yourself. but rather to say that you might get from point A to point B, where b is having a successful business in that niche much faster. If you can get mentorship from somebody who's already done it. That would be the first thing I'd be thinking about. If I were trying to get into a particular market where I didn't already have the expertise. So many people are, too, they lack the confidence to mentor other people. And I think that's a huge part of it, too, that those people who've been in business and been successful. ought to be mentoring others. That's part of the game. everybody learns somewhere. Yeah. That's very, very true, Pat. Yeah, yeah, I just really, I mean, it The irony is, right. Before we started talking, I was looking at these, these Tony Robbins coaching programs, and I'm gonna make an investment. And it's, it's a sizable investment, but I feel like investing in ourselves, just pays you seven. And you know, I would say, also, to kind of put a fine point or finish finish that line of thought around mentorship, be willing to pay for it. I know it can be a little scary, but I would not rely on okay, I want to break into the Jewish market. And Pat is going to mentor me for free. Right? Like, maybe you Oh, cuz you're a wonderful person. But there's a whole bunch of free stuff out there. And I don't mean that. I don't mean to belittle that. But you're absolutely right. You ought to be willing to pay for your education someway, somehow. And that's a big deal. Yeah, it's funny, I did not even I mean, have you? Is it public knowledge, you're building the course and all that stuff? Yeah. So I was like, I did not even I mean, like, these guys are gonna think, wait a minute, like, they just got on there. So she could tell us to go to timeline genius. And he could tell us to get past courses. I just want to say fold it. Like I really did not even have that in mind. But that What a perfect way to just like, yeah, if you're if you're like, that's exactly what I would do. If I were trying to get into the Jewish market, I would find courses from people that I trust, who have years of experience doing it like you. And you know, provided that the content of the course was like something I'd invest in that stuff. Like that's how you do it. And that's how you shortcut it, and you increase the probability that you're going to succeed. All right, back up a little bit. jealous about your favorite way to learn. Are you a visual learner an auditory learner? Are you a guy who likes To be in person. Um, everybody has their own style. You know, I've always heard people say that, and I've never really fully mapped it on to myself. But I do think I do think like my mother in law, for example, learns a lot through conversations with people, like she'll just talk to different people and all and she'll learn a lot. I do take things in that way. I guess I tend to get more in a sort of like, I've got a book and I'm curled up in studying it, or I'm online reading. But I learned a lot from audio to like, I've always got a like, audible is my I mean, I spend, I can't tell you how big my library. So I learned a lot just in and I used to read books, but now I can't do that. I've got two kids. I'm like, if I've got time to sit down, I need to do it. My kids. So I listen to audiobooks while walking around. I try to get out what's your favorite book? My favorite book? Let's change that around. If you had a book you could recommend to somebody starting a business. What would you recommend? That's great. business book starting a business? Oh, gosh, there's so many that. I'm just, you know, you know, I'll tell you how Elrod miracle equation book miracle equation. Yeah, it's no joke, guys. It's uh, this is a little bit tangential, because it's actually more of a self help personal growth kind of book. But for me, I totally just applied it to business. Like the essence of the book is there is like this equation, this sort of process that how distill that you may know him from, like he wrote the Miracle Morning. Isn't that incredible? Dude, like, he is just a guy who like, I don't know if he would sign off on my saying this, but like, the way I view him, it's like, it's not like you're looking at like LeBron James, or just somebody that just came into this world with just this. For Whitney Houston, just somebody that came into the world with this phenomenal talent. He's just like, an ordinary guy, who, as much as anybody I can think of off the top of my head said, I am going to do the best I can, with what I have. I'm just going to be the best version of myself. And he went through this like car accident where he almost died. Everybody told him he was never gonna walk again. His whole life was turned upside down. He's like, young, he battles his way through this. He starts walking, and he's coaching writing books. He writes his Miracle Morning book, all of this. And after all of that, I mean, what are the odds of this he randomly, like, in a matter of like, a day goes from having a normal life that he rebuilt to being diagnosed with this incredibly rare, ridiculously aggressive form of cancer? And they're like, oh, you're gonna die. They're like, you've got like weeks, like, you're basically not going to make it. And through these extra, he obviously did make it and there's, he's like, there's a way that I did it. And he has this thing that he calls a miracle equation. I need to check it out. Yes, yeah. And I read that I like, yeah, I think I vouch for that book. There might have been more info than me. There's so many business books, though. But yeah, that was that's great. Okay, I know, a huge bunch of entrepreneurs who are very, very, very good at their craft, but not good business people. Do you have a preferred book for that? You know, well, so the E myth by Michael Gerber is a good, good read, it's not so much gonna give you the substance that you need to be like the great business person, but it will really solidify. And I think what you just said is such a profoundly important point, Pat, like, people get into business. Because love, they're like, I love photography. And I want to be a photographer, right? I love planning events. I love managing events, and I want to be an event manager, right? But the minute you open your business, you're not just a DJ, you're not just a photographer, party planner, right, you are a business owner. And I think that the E myth really does a good job of instilling that notion that you can't just focus on your trade, you've got to focus on your business and it gets kind of everybody talks about working on your business, and it's almost trite, but it's still profoundly important to do. And I, I feel like business, it's a little hard to I've not, I don't have any one book to me that will really kind of take a person from zero to 60 on like, because there's so many aspects of business and honestly, some of the most important I think the will probably resonate with you as a business owner. For me, as much as I love reading and have gained from reading. Some of the most important stuff that you learn about business just comes from doing it. And being mindful as you do it and learning the lessons that come, but you just got to be in the trenches. And frankly, get your head knocked around a couple times to learn these lessons. And you're like, now I understand, like, now I unders Oh, I'll tell you a great business book, I would totally recommend like, again, it's not like a cover all of the areas, but I think marketing, if there's one area of business that for me at this stage of my career, I'm like, because most of the people listening to us, Pat, are, if you're a photographer, I'm assuming you know how to take good photos, right? Like, that's probably not the thing that's gonna I mean, yeah, you need to keep getting better and professional, like, even in your trade keep getting better and better be the Michael Jordan of your craft, right. But like, that's probably in my, in my study of people in this industry. That's not the thing that separates the people that have the thriving businesses and the work life balance and all this stuff. But marketing is huge. So there's a book called The one page marketing plan by this guy Alan did. And check that out. Because it is so simple and straightforward. And it doesn't matter if you're a photographer or a planner, I think that that would be immense. It's a fairly quick read, very digestible. Check it out. I have a book that I just love called profit first by herb Ellis. Not that love that I've heard of this book. I need to check that out. Profit first. Yes. And his basic premise, and I've talked about it yourself first, right, like profit first. Oh, okay. Go ahead. I was jumping on good. What's the basic premise? His basic premise is that most people take sales minus expenses. And if they have anything left, it's profit. Right? Right. Right. And his contention is, if you're not going to make profit, you're not going to be in business. So you take sales minus profit, and whatever is left for expenses, you will figure out a way to live on that. And his example is a tube of toothpaste. When you get that brand new tube of toothpaste, you squeeze it on, and you spend liberally. And when you get down to the end of that two toothpastes, you're cranking until you figure out a way to do it. And I really believe that a whole bunch of our industry doesn't make enough money. And I would love for them to make profit. Wow, I love that, Pat. I've heard nothing but glowing things like life changing testimonials from people. I don't know why I haven't read that one yet. I'm gonna check it out. For sure. I really liked that book. So yeah. Okay, so you have a podcast? I did. Tell us about your podcasts. Why should our listeners enjoy that? Yeah, so the wedding industry insider podcast, what I wanted to do, I think podcasts are a podcast. podcasting is like just this revolutionary medium, in the sort, of course of human history. And what I mean by that is, you know, suddenly, we have this technology technology's allowed us to do things like this Pat, where all these different people all over the world, now, you don't have to get a television show. You don't have to get airtime on a radio. And it's so niched and specific that you can just find all these people that have like a wealth of information to share. And for me, I wouldn't have started Tom on genius had it not been for the podcast, I was an entrepreneurial podcast mixergy that I listened to at the time. And what I wanted to do was to kind of give that same sort of value to the people that are listening, specifically, wedding industry professionals, and we still a little more toward the wedding and event planner, but wedding industry pros of all walks. What I tried to do, Pat is what we were just talking about. I don't get into like the trade, I get into the business side of things. And what I want to do is give people the experience of basically being like, what would happen if I could grab coffee with David Tutera right or having coffee with you? Like Exactly, yeah. And it's like, what, what and I want to give people the experience of being able to do that. And I tried to just ask the questions. I'm like, when you get these people and you just ask, like, how'd you do it? Like what's the most important thing that contributed to your success? Where do you go right? And I just want people to leave with, obviously inspiration but also very concrete knowledge that they can take and apply to their business to take get to the next level. So that's the whole idea behind the podcast. I think that's a wonderful thing. So, hey, mutual admiration society here, I just have tremendous respect for what you do. And I mentioned timeline genius a couple times, but tell us how to get how to check out timeline gene. Where do they go? I'm gonna give people Alright, so they can go to Tom on genius.com forward slash demo, I would say go there. And when you see you know what it does, there's video on the page that will show you I think it'll blow people's minds because no matter how much I tell people about it until they've seen it, they don't tend to fully just oh, my gosh, I get it. But the other thing, and this is a broader point, it's not just about Tom on genius. I think that, um, I have an interesting vantage point, because I'm a tech entrepreneur, at heart, like my real passion in life is solving problems from people using technology. And now I'm in the wedding industry. So I sit at this, you know, they call it web tech, right? I sit with this very interesting vantage point at the intersection of like wedding, the wedding in tech industries, right. And one tip I would give people is a be open to doing things in a better way. And I know that sounds trite, maybe the way I've said it, but like, I can't tell you that there's so many people that you'll you'll come across. And the mindset is one of like, well, I've been doing it this way. And that's the way I'm used to. And it's been working. And honestly, sometimes ego can get wrapped up in that without thinking about it. And it's easy, because like, when you're a business, there's nobody to give you that pat on the back every day, like you're great at this and like, and there can be this sort of like, Well, my vendors already say that, like my timelines are great are already do this. And that can be really dangerous. And I'm not meaning to take anybody down a peg, like, I'm sure you are amazing, but just always just be open to the possibility of like growth and doing things better. And I say that specifically because I'm watching technology, transform our industry. And I'm part of that way, very proudly part of that wave. And there are so many tools, it's not even just timeline genius. I don't care if you're a photographer or a DJ, what, there are tools right now that has been created by really smart people investing a lot of time and a lot of energy and money to build something specifically to help you do your job more efficiently and more profitably. And my advice would be be open to that. Try those things out, like make a list of all the software that might be able to help you and this brings us back to Tom on Gs. Get a personal tour. That's my hat. That's my Tim, I don't know why like this isn't really talked about but like, don't I mean, look, you can if you if you like what you see with Tom on jeans, by all means, go on the homepage, I'm on jeans, calm start a free trial. That's great. What I would suggest because your time is valuable. Instead of doing that, send an email to our account development manager. She might get mad, but I'm gonna give her personal email. It's Brooke br o ke at Tom lunches, send her an email, introduce yourself and say I'd like to get a personal tour. Why? Because you have your own unique business. If you want to really get to know a tool quickly and efficiently and have the version of the explanation be tailored to you and your business. Get on the phone with a human being right? To say this is what I do Jewish weddings, right? Or I primarily do bar mitzvahs. Now kintamani genius best be organized to suit me. So that would be my advice. Do that. Identify your top top four tools and get out there and talk to people about okay, but now spill it? What are some of your other favorite technology hacks? tacacs. Well, that's the one that I've just been Yeah. Not even hacks. What are some other tools that you would strongly encourage anybody in the wedding industry to use? Um, gosh, it really and it starts to obviously vary depending on what particular you know, are you a photographer DJ, but let's just say generally speaking. There are some trends that I see playing out. One is like invoicing, context management, you know, payments and contracts. I think I'm really excited about Rock Paper coin. Nora shields and those guys I love them to death or them I did podcast recently. Yeah, she's she and Elizabeth and like that whole crew. I believe in them and I love them to death. I think they're amazing. I would definitely look at that. backup. So Rock Paper coin, their invoice management system. Yeah, like contract relations. Yeah, like contract management. So basically, getting out of this model of like you having a paper contract, you sign it and you're, you know, they got an invoice. It's just streamlining that whole thing. And I think they're doing a great job. And I'm really excited about where they're going. I have I say that because I have a little more insight into because I know them personally and have for years, I have no problem, you know, putting my reputation on the line because I see where they're going with it. And I use 17 hats, and I love 17 hats. Yep. But there's probably 40% of it, I'm not taken advantage of right, and I want to go back and use your other hack and get a demo, I might be using it better. And 100%. That is just a great thing. 100%. And since you mentioned 17 hats, I'll mention dubsado as well, I'm not used dubsado. And yeah, this is not at all a personal thing. Like they're not getting any benefit out of this. In fact, I've tried to approach them for doing integrations. And I think they've been so busy, I haven't been able to really like get them on the phone to chat about it. But I've just I've heard great things from them. I think the biggest things for me, Pat are like you can figure out because everybody has a different business, you know, planning business is different from your business is different from a DJ business is different floral, I tend to kind of look at the bigger picture, things that I can share that I feel like will benefit everybody like getting a demo, but also the mindset around technology. It's a very real thing in our industry, you'd be surprised, like I talked to so many people and like, Look, when you're talking to programmers about technology, you're not going to get this but in our industry, there can almost be this sort of like resistance to change. And I don't want to sound like the Star Trek board, like Resistance is futile. But Resistance is futile. Like, this is a good thing folks like there. And it even ties back to profitability, right? Because like people, when you think about like that profit first, like if you're if you're making money, but you need to think about how many hours are you putting into the job to get that, because you can look and have what marly major calls like she calls herself the profit guys, you can have your McDonald's moment where you're like, I could go take minimum wage and make what I'm making. So it's about becoming efficient, right. So you're doing things at a higher level more efficiently. And that helps you get that work life balance, so you don't burn out, you know, and you're making the money you deserve. But I think that that's a big thing. Like just knowing the other big thing that I don't I have more experience with this with with wedding planners a little less with other. But I think this is this is definitely something that I've heard a lot is people say, Well, I just want one software that's going to do everything. And I just want to disabuse people. I have good news and bad news on that. Okay, the bad news is that's not a thing. Okay, that's just not a thing. There's no in this day and age, you're not going to have one software that covers the full array of everything that you need to do for your business. That's I have probably 20 software's that I pay for, you know, maybe more. Um, the good news, though. So that's the bad news. It's not I think the good news is the good news is today, the constellation of tools that are available to you. And it varies again, person by person, trade by trade, but if you do your homework, and think about it intentionally the constellation of tools that are available to you. It's unprecedented, the ease and efficiency and effectiveness with which you can work today using these tools. It's incredible. Yeah. And I knew someone for a long time who was resistant to text messages. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I kept thinking, Oh, what do I need text messages for? And now, I can't imagine not using text messages. I was saying way back. Yeah. So what's out there now that people are saying, Oh, I don't need that. It's just a fad. Well, is it really gonna go away? I know, there's a whole bunch of stuff that I'm thrilled is sticking around. And yeah, it's changed our world. I totally was the same way on texting until I did it. Like I remember, like I was here. I was like, what's the big deal? Like? If I Why wouldn't I just call you and tell you and then like, it's one of those things. You have to try it right. And then once you try it, like and not just like once, but once you do it, like, exact thing probably didn't take more than like, a few days, but you're like, oh, Moore's like, yeah. And then I felt the same way about slack. I remember when one of my strategic have a member of our advisory board was like, Eddie, you got to get down with the program with slack. I'm like, really, man, I was like, Look, I've used Skype. And I've kind of lost interest in that. Like, I don't need another way to message them, send them in, like, once I was like, Oh, now I can't imagine like running our business, you know, with our distributed team without slack but the bigger thing is just, you know, I can't tell each person specifically what tools to necessarily use for their business. What I can tell them to do is block out a little time, you don't have to go crazy. But this the block out a little time maybe, like literally maybe it's 45 minutes. So you can take 45 minutes in a given week to just do this exercise. Think about the key sort of aspects of your business, right? Like just the key, and it varies person to person business business, I could break it down, like finance, marketing, whatever, but just think about the workflows, like what do you spend your time doing in your business, okay. And then, you know, you can literally do that in like, 15 minutes, right. And then for each of those categories, think like, have a heard about any software tools that other people I respect, have said, like, and trust, have said, this is amazing, this changed my life, just jot down the names of those tools, and then maybe take another few minutes and just go on Google and look for Okay, you know, wedding photographer, software, whatever, just do it. And then once you get that sort of List of like, this is that I should put like, a little like, image out there like, well, what are the what's the barbecue thing that the Yeah, like a main, but what I'm just like, maybe like a little pamphlet, even just like, this is what to do with 123. Like what I'm laying out here. Think about the workflows. Think about the tools, you've heard up, do a little bit of extra research, and then identify the ones that you want to get a little bit smarter on and send them an email, and just get on the phone with somebody do a zoom, and just say, Please show me how your software can. And then for the ones that you think look promising, give them the try. Worst case, you lose a little time, which I know that's valuable. But like best case, you find a tool that transforms your business, right? It's a wonderful thing. And timeline genius has been one of those tools for me, and I can't thank you enough for creating this wonderful product. And I just keep saying there's good stuff out there. Keep trying keep trying keep looking. But I hear your advice loud and clear. Get a mentor, keep learning. Yeah. And I think that's incredibly valuable advice to anyone in any industry. But in particular, in the wedding industry. Nobody gets a degree in wedding management, and comes away knowing what they're supposed to know. Right, you learn a whole bunch of it through experience, and you should take advantage of what's out there. You know, I almost feel like on that mentorship thing there could be active First of all, one fortunate thing is that a lot of really talented people that are explicitly offering coaching services, but I almost think this is a little off script, but or, you know, out of the box, but I think some of the, the best people I know, are people that are just kind of like until recently it was you right? Like, you've got all this expertise, but you're in the trenches doing it. You're not even out there coaching people. But I would almost think like, could I reach out to a Pat Blackwell and say like, hey, Pat, you know, you don't know me, but like, I've just been I know of you and your reputation. You know, would you be open to coming up with like a coaching arrangement? You know, like, I know, that's a little weird. It's like, unconventional, but just like, I know, your time is valuable. I'll totally pay you like you tell me what a fair hourly rate is to maybe just have a call once a month because I'm really trying to get into like, Jewish like party management. And I just would love some guidance. Like, what could that hurt? If you have some people out there that you really admire to find five or six people and send them an email, see what happens? You know, Wayne Gretzky says you miss 100% of the shots you don't take right if you don't ask the answer's no. I love that. Yep. Well, that's great. Well, I so very much appreciate your coming on the podcast with me today. And I think this is a great thing for people to check out and your phone's gonna be ringing. So I like to hear that. I love you to death Pat, I think you are just so awesome and so positive every time I talk to you like it just lifts my spirits and I really you know, I you know, just everything you the way you've approached COVID the wave Braun, your grown your business and, and just grown professionally, like what you're doing with the horses just think big, huge hug. And pat on the back here. Amazing. Thank you very much right back. All right. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. Take care. Well, that was fun. I hope you enjoyed it. And I hope you'll learn some things to timeline genius has been a game changer for my business. And I think you'll find it very helpful in your business to tune in next week and every week, and you'll be on your way to booking more Jewish weddings. Thanks for listening.